INTERVIEW | MUSIC | WEB EXCLUSIVE
Written by Liam Hansen (they/them) | @liamhanse.n | Editor-in-Chief
Aotearoa Emo is a small, but ever growing subgenre that sees the sorrowful tones and crooning of Midwest Emo from the 90s’ and 2010s, and forces them through sad Auckland suburbs and rural townships. Active since 2012, Carb on Carb has pioneered these sounds, hopping from city to city to disrupt the scene with emotional bangers that could fit right alongside a playlist of MCR and Modern Baseball.
Guitarist/vocalist Nicole Gaffeney and drummer James Stutely are currently on the verge of releasing their third album, “Take Time”. This comes after their anthemic 2018 release “For Ages” and their classic 2015 self titled debut, seeing the band continue to mature and bring their scene into a new decade. It’s the first full-length release of 2024 for Papaiti Records, James’s record label that sees the bulk of Aotearoa Emo albums to release (more on that here).
I caught up with James while he was up in Tāmaki Makaurau last week, chatting about the upcoming album and the mahi they’ve done so far.
Liam
Let's start by going back to the origins of the band. Where did Carb on Carb originate?
James
We were in a band called Mammal Airlines before Carb on Carb, where Nicole played drums when I played guitar. And then our bandmate left - we went "Okay, we'll do something as a two piece and swap." It lasted a lot longer than I expected [laughs].
Liam
I mean, it's kinda become the front runner of emo music in Aotearoa, which I doubt was something that you expected to happen when you started out?
James
No, definitely not at the start. I think we've ended up with that title just 'cause we lasted so long.
Liam
You've put out two albums so far - your self-titled debut, and 'For Ages' - with the third, 'Take Time', coming out on the 17th of May. Going from those early albums, what do you think has changed in the making of 'Take Time'?
James
We were a bit more relaxed about this one. I think the first album was when we were trying to prove ourselves, and the second we'd just done like, a year of touring and making new friends and fans and stuff. We were mostly writing for them. Now, we're just writing without thinking about what it should be.
Liam
I remember in an old RNZ interview, around the time 'For Ages' was coming out, Nicole made a point about how the new music was trying its best to be meaningful, in a sense.
James
I mean, we just felt really grateful for an amazing year of shows and stuff, and wanted to make something that showed our gratitude. We came from an indie scene when people were constantly being self deprecating and writing off their music as unimportant. I think, for "For Ages" we were trying to not cut it down and let it be important to people if they want it to be.
Liam
So often, you'll see people just try and act like they don't give a shit about anything. It's kind of the problem in New Zealand music - everyone is telling themselves "Okay, calm down. You're not that important." But you've garnered this reputation now - so much of which just comes from relentless touring back in the early days before COVID. How do you think your music has been affected now that you're less on the road?
James
We could just take so much more time with it.
Liam
That gave you the album title.
James
[laughs] Yeah, because we were never really writing songs on the road. We would do some tours and sort of stop and try to write for a few months so we could change focus. But for "Take Time, we were just forced into using that vast amount of time. It was kind of bad, to be honest - not for the output, but the process just didn't suit the vibe. Initially we planned to finish in 2021 and then 2022 after that, but we just decided it wasn't worth doing anything if we couldn't tour.
Liam
This past year, you've been jumping back into that touring syndicate - I saw you live at your last Tāmaki show, and you just had your first Australia tour in probably five years. Did you find that there were many differences in the scene post-covid?
James
There was a nice difference in the recent tours - we had one in 2021 as well, and it was a cool time to do what we did. I think people were just hungrier for shows - those were some of the best presales we've ever gotten.
Liam
The band has been based in so many different areas, from Te Whanganui-a-Tara to Tāmaki Makaurau and now Whanganui. Have these different albums reflected their particular albums - Whanganui for "Take Time", for instance?
James
Hm - I think there's connections you can definitely make but we did write most of “Take Time” in Tamaki.
Liam
Did you find that Auckland can influence the way that you were writing songs much?
James
I think in the first album, yeah. I was practising drums to it the other day, and it sounded really mid-2010s Auckland to me. I think after that when we started playing in Australia and stuff more, we became influenced by those scenes.
Liam
It's interesting to hear her point of "that sounds very Auckland". I feel like I've been struggling to define if there's particular Auckland sounds, at least at the moment.
James
Yeah, I mean, when I say "Auckland'' I guess I'm referring to a pretty narrow scene of punk bands who played at Whammy and the all ages scene. Especially all of the Reuben Winter bands and stuff.
Liam
I mean, so much of the genesis of Carb on Carb and Papaiti comes from the Whanganui, Palmerston North area - especially with The Stomach in Palmy which is also all ages. Are you noticing any differences in the scene there?
James
Definitely - I think the Whanganui connections come from me growing up but not living there. Palmerston North is a good scene since they had the stomach growing up. And there's often another all ages venue as well - at the moment, it's Snails. they just have so many chances to get good and play shows - it's not a big scene, but there can be big shows. Bands from there really just have like a really high standard of quality.
Liam
Coming back to "Take Time", has there been anything new that you guys have been trying to bring to this album? For instance, "I Know The End 2" was the first time you've performed lead vocals for a while. Is there anything else along those lines?
James
Probably more on the production side. Working with Harry has led to way more guitar presence. It's the most time we have spent on recording. The others were sort of data in a rush and this one we took the time. It was more in the approach rather than instrumentation that we changed - we were less stressed about the destination.
Liam
What was it like working with Harry Lilley on this? Was it the first time that you've worked together?
James
Nah, Carb on Carb recorded a couple of singles with him in 2021 and I've done other stuff with him - a couple of the How Get EP's, and the Yon Loader album which is coming out this year. It's been a relationship for a while.
Liam
Those other projects are on your label, Papaiti - what's it like being a part of the bands you're managing as a label head?
James
I guess I don't really know what it's like to not manage my bands. I definitely spend more time doing admin and management than I do playing music, and have for a long time. It's weird, but I just love the results so I don't mind doing it. It would be amazing just to be in a band where you turn up and play.
Liam
There's so many little niches that continuously pop up in Carb songs, the obvious one being the Home Again saga, seeing multiple Papaiti artists title songs after the Shihad classic. You've kind of continued that with "I Know The End 2" - is that referencing the Phoebe Bridgers song?
James
Yeah [laughs]. I don't know. I just thought it could be funny to start another title chain, and it was in the lyrics. As time passed, I've gotten worried people are too precious about the Phoebe Bridgers song. The other one is just Shihad.
Liam
Nah, I reckon everyone loves the Home Again series and they'll feel the same for I Know The End 2. You have Home Again 6 on the new album, don't you?
James
It's actually Home Again seven. Sam from Recitals is working on six.
Liam
Oh my god, it's never gonna end.
James
Now I'm wondering what's going to happen when it hits ten. Is that the end?
Liam
Speaking of Papaiti, have you brought on any other artists from that roster or around the music scene to help work with you on this album?
James
Olivia Grace Wilding from Recitals is on cello who was great. That's the only other person that plays on the album. We were trying to be quite relaxed about it, and not make everything perfect.
Liam
How does it feel to kind of have that more relaxed approach to songwriting and releasing music? I feel like that's a very New Zealand thing to be like, "Hey, you don't have to actually be a big massive mega star. You can just make music because it's fun and people will appreciate it."
James
Hm, it's a good question. Doing "For Ages" was kind of intense, but it was so intentional that it was quite easy to know what to do. I think that this one was a really fun writing process at the start, but because it was delayed quite a while it started to feel a bit weird. Once we finished the songs and started playing them it felt right.
‘Take Time’ will be released on the 17th of May, available on streaming services, Bandcamp, and vinyl. You can catch the band play live on the 17th, alongside Repairs for their double album release show at The Wine Cellar.
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